Spam! Do You Really Understand?

[D.Koenemann]

Spam!

Do you really understand the definitions of what spam is?

Do you know how to avoid being guilty of spamming?

I would like to see your questions and answers here on this very important topic.
It applies to everyone who is online, reguardless of what type of program you are in. If you are promoting anything at all you must understand the laws governing spam, or you risk your business and your internet connections. You can draw jail time as well as very heavy fines/lawsuits. So lets have some discussions here, ask questions and put in your 2 cents on this very important topic.

I will start it off with this little message to all members of Downline4All.

This is an advertising forum. We have provided you with appropriate places to advertise your programs or opportunities. All these things are for your use.
How ever sending PM's and or emails advertising your program or biz opp to members of this community is spam. This is something that can not and will not be tolerated. You can and will be banned from Downline4All if you spam in this manner, there are no exceptions to this rule. So just don't do it. Ok? :)

The only way you can PM or email a fellow member your biz op is if they have specifically asked you to do so, in that event I would advise you to keep a copy of said request on file. We all get more than our fair share of this junk in our mailboxes everyday from outside sources that we can't control. D4A will not become a source of spam, it would get us shut down, which I am sure no one wants. That is why we have the strict no spam policy, to protect this great and growing community as well as each of it's members.

I would like to invite everyone to comment on this subject. If you don't understand the law, please ask questions and I or some of the other mods here will explain it as best we can. If you were to get accused of spamming, saying you don't understand the laws will not exempt you from prosecution, but you would get a very expensive education that would most likely cost you your business. We want to avoid that kind of thing from happening. :)

So post your questions and comments here. This will be an ongoing discussion as it is very important.

D.Koenemann

[VamPvixen]

Great and importand topic!

I get alot of this in my email, the prob is if you go to unsub as they have at the bottom it often confirms your addy instead and you get more sent :(

Alot of them also come back as an unknown email addy so hard to track down.

Who exactly do you report them? who do you fwd the ofending mail to?

[Admin Money For Emails]

I receive tons of SPAM in my personal mailbox !! :angry:

With Incredimail, i can send automatically an answer to sender "adress unknown".

But i receive more and more .....
I am sure i have deleted important emails because now i click "delete" "delete" "delete" OUPS !! Too late....

I am waiting a very efficient program which i can block these SPAM emails !!

I receive around 100 emails per day !! And only 1 or 2 are really for me !!

My 2 cents

Allan

[Andre]

Hi all, and a big thanks to Dennis for starting this Very interesting topic.
I know that you tried to start up a thread like this earlier, let’s just hope
That we all can flip in our thoughts and share experiences more actively
this time. (even if it is vacation time).

Like Dennis stated, this is probably The Most important thing for all
Internet Marketers, and it will only be more and more important.
(I’m not only talking about sending Spam msg’s on this board, or any
other ad/discussion board for that matter).

The most extreme Spam complain can in some states put you behind bars..
(This is Not a joke!) I definitely share Dennis’s concern here. We do not
want to see this community closed just because some one is extremely
eager to promote their biz op. (for the record.. We have not received any
complains so far, so there is no danger for this at this point, lets all keep
it this way).

Now to all of you getting a lot of Spam emails, here is a 90% sure way to
Stop it without giving the sender to big of a problem.. (you can always
Put a big “Ragnarok” on the promoter later if this does not work out.

The good auto responders will forward your reply to the Real email
Address so that the sender actually receives it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Spam Warning – I Will Report you!

Msg.: Remove me – YourEmail @ Addres.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This will in most cases prevent you from receiving more emails from
That sender.

If this does not work – Put the Ragnarok on them, Report them to both
The ISP and the Program support. If they don’t listen to this msg. He
Is most likely to Spam others as well.
Ps. Give the sender a few days to remove your email address – it can be
that the autoresponder software is a little slow..

Remember, don’t Spam – Many others are using this Exact method to
Clean up their favorite email address. It could be you that is being reported
The next time, even if you bought the leads from a reliable source.

I like what Jim on the forum here is doing. He is collecting his own Fresh
Leads. This is slower then buying them, but much more secure.

Let’s keep this thread rolling, maybe we together can create a easy to
Understand “manual” about this subject.

A good rule of thumb is … Don’t send out Spam emails.. ;)

[D.Koenemann]

Another thing I see being promoted by many of the Guru's, is the harvesting of emails with some of the newer softwares. This will backfire on you.

Collecting your own leads is the only safeway to do it. There is also a lot of responsibility in doing so.You are required to guarantee them that their email address is safe with you. That you respect their right to unsubscribe at anytime, and provide the means for them to do so. It is them up to you to make sure that you have complied with their wishes.

You are required by the law to list all your contact data, meaning name , address, phone number. This must be kept up to date and accurate.

If you are building your own list, do you know what you must have to protect yourself, or mount a defense if ever accused of spamming?

D.Koenemann

[gelderland]

When I understand it right, then it is not allowed when a member of this forum,
send me a pm with the question if I will signup in a programme under that person???




~Nicole~

[Gnida_M]

simply mark all this mails as a spam and they never come again if user who send spam don't register new mail acct. :)

[D.Koenemann]

Nicole,

Hi and thanks for asking your question. B)

The only way you should receive that type of PM is if you and that member have been communicating back and forth with one another about a specific program that you or the other person asked for information on.

Posting of your referral link in the appropriate area is how it is supposed to be done. If you want to join the program then you do so through that link. If you contact them through a PM and ask for more info on that program then he/she is allowed to send it. Unsolicited PM's and email is not allowed.

I hope this answers your question. If you have more just ask again. :)

D.Koenemann

[gelderland]

So you may only recieving a pm from that person if you ask for it.
Other wise then that, is forbidden?


~Nicole~

[Gnida_M]

Hya Nicole :)

maybe he/she simply sends u offer 2 join his/her prog, i think sends same offers who r at this moument in forum...

[Andre]

Originally posted by gelderland@Jul 10 2004, 07:45 PM
When I understand it right, then it is not allowed when a member of this forum,
send me a pm with the question if I will signup in a programme under that person???




~Nicole~
Not sure if I understod exactly what you meen,
but I don't think it is ok to just send out ads to
anyone on this board if they did not infact ask
for that information.

Of course if you have builded a reationship with
that person it's more easy to tell that person in
a polite way that you are not interrested at this
point (if you are not).

I think anyone on this board has a Really unique
chanse to build High Quality marketing contacts.

If you are offended in some way offended by
unsolitated contact I really hope you contact
one of the mod's Before you contact our web
host.. :D

We will of course delete that member right away.

no one on this board deserves to be spamed in
any way.

Permition marketing is so much better, and it gives
Amazingly better ressults.

The best marketing tip any experienced marketer
can give to Any one is:

1. build a list.
2. build trust
3. PROVE that you are trust worthy
4. Market your product ;)

If someone spam you on downline4all, PLEASE
report them to us right away, this will make this
a better place for everybody.

[gelderland]

Originally posted by Gnida_M@Jul 10 2004, 07:05 PM
Hya Nicole :)

maybe he/she simply sends u offer 2 join his/her prog, i think sends same offers who r at this moument in forum...
Offer or not,when I didn't ask for it it could be considerd as spam.
Now i'm not the person who run to a mod immidtly when someone
send me a pm like that.
But the point is,when you didn't ask for it or didn't spoken to that person
for that programme it is not allowed and it could considerd as spam.


~Nicole~ ;)

[D.Koenemann]

PM's should really be just for saying hi to one another or talking about whatever things you want as long as it is a mutual thing. All recruiting should be done in the public forum. This protects all parties and is what the forum is for. The PM capability is for some interaction outside the public forum, but has to be of a mutual agreement that you want to talk with one another. :)

D.Koenemann

[gelderland]

Oke thanks Dennis.

It make sense . :rolleyes:

~Nicole~ ;)

[gelderland]

Originally posted by André@Jul 10 2004, 07:14 PM









If you are offended in some way offended by
unsolitated contact I really hope you contact
one of the mod's Before you contact our web
host.. :D

We will of course delete that member right away.

no one on this board deserves to be spamed in
any way.


.
No it's not nessecary,because at that time I was not offended,because when I
get that pm I did not know that it wasn't allowed. :unsure:
Now i know better. :)

But thanks anyway ;)

~Nicole~ ;)

[D.Koenemann]

Now one thing I want to say ..is that any of you are always welcome to send me a PM to ask a question in private, some people are a little shy, I know.

I enjoy corresponding with people, I am also here to teach and help when I can. :)

T me this is like a big family, only it is spread around the world, with many different culture's, to me that is cool. B)

D.Koenemann

[gelderland]

Originally posted by D.Koenemann@Jul 10 2004, 07:37 PM


T me this is like a big family, only it is spread around the world, with many different culture's, to me that is cool. B)


Well i'll think you're right.

I feel the same way,it has a family feeling.
I like to put topics on the forum and I like to respond at any topic.
Even when i'm not such of a dowlinebuilder(i just click with or without referrals)
i like to know how ppl think about all kinds of things.
And about the different culture's: it's double cool B) B)

~Nicole~ ;)

[D.Koenemann]

:lol: :lol:

I'm not much of a downline builder myself. I'm not really here for that reason.

When I was offered a chance to join the moderating team here I saw an opportunity to meet many new people.

I am 52 years old and many places of the world I will never see with my own eyes. Thanks to the internet I can still meet and greet people whom I would other wise never get to know.

Along with this comes the opportunity to help those that may need some assistance, and sometimes I am able to help them. I like that! :lol:

D.Koenemann

[gelderland]

Way to go,thats the spirit :D :D

~Nicole~ ;)

[Gnida_M]

D.K.

Russians saying (if i translete right)..."don't have $100, and have 100 friends"


Andrew

[D.Koenemann]

now I want to give the other mods a chance to tell some of the other ways to fight spam or their thoughts on spam, as well as fellow members. :)

Jump in and share the knowledge with one another, help one another to deal with this very serious and annoying problem. :)

D.Koenemann

[D.Koenemann]

Hey That's pretty good saying Gnida!

I have very little money, but when I look at the friendships I am making here and elsewhere on the net, I think I am very rich! :lol: :lol:

Now maybe just maybe I can help enrich your lives. :) B)

D.Koenemann

[Andre]

I just want to refer to a email that we received here the other day..

it was simple but still very interresting:
----------------------

Have you ever considered offering free webhosting to your members?
I think I can help, you see I run a small webhosting company.

Let me know if you are interrested..

----------------------

Well of course this was interresting, we replied and asked for more info... ;)

I think this is a very smart aproach, and it is impossible to accuse this
person for spam. Ok Dennis, a little of but still, I liked it so I wanted to
share it.

I will find a way to duplicate this in the future, I think it will work very well
and it keeps me out of spam truble :)

[D.Koenemann]

That is an interesting non threatening email Andre.

I have no problems with that type email, I receive them off and on myself.
I usually do end up checking them out as they have peaked my curiousity. :lol:

D.Koenemann

[Lene]

You pretty much covered it up I think.

Though, there is a difference between sending someone a PM
and sending someone an e-mail from this board.
As soon as you hit someone's email inbox what you can do and
cannot do is regulated by international spam laws, but on a discussion
board you follow the rules of the board.
Some boards doesn't allow any referral links in topics, while on others
you can post as many as you dear.
Think of real life, we have the written laws and the unwritten laws.


Ok, here's an example.
If I wanted to join a few more PTR programs and posted in general discussion
something along these lines:
"I have room for a few more PTRs, but with all the scams online these
days I need some advice. Do you know any good programs with a payout
preferably from 0-15$ with an honest WM?"

If I had specifically invited everyone to PM me, well, then rush to it.. :P
In this case I didn't specifically ask anyone to PM me, so I wouldn't do it.
If you choose to do it though, you should send something along these lines:
"Hi,
I read a post by you : http://www.downline4all.com/forums/.....topicid=...
I have a list of 10 great programs with a low payout. Let me know
if you are interested."

The best thing to do though is just post a reply with some information about the programs and the name, or post something like this:
"I have a list of 10 great programs. All with a low payout. They are all known
to be paying and have honest WMs. PM me if you are interested in the list."

This might give you a bonus as other people might post asking you to PM this info,
or they might PM you referring to your post to ask for this info.


The important point is:
First build the trust, relationship or interest then try to sell.
If you want a downline, they must be interested (be your target).

Oh, and don't be affraid to PM me, I wont bite ya, but if you don't
follow this advice you will one day PM someone who isn't not only interested,
but "bites" too.

[D.Koenemann]

Thanks for your input on this Lene. As a matter of fact you explained it better than I did on the PM thing, Thank You. :)

If we all obey these rules and laws hopefully we will never experience the enforcement end of them. :o

Come on lets hear some other comments on this very vital subject! :)

D.Koenemann

[Gnida_M]

Lene

i think if i understan u right will be better if u and André open one new section where members can ask or tell somthing about some PTR's :)

Andrew

[antinomy]

Originally posted by gelderland@Jul 10 2004, 06:45 PM
When I understand it right, then it is not allowed when a member of this forum,
send me a pm with the question if I will signup in a programme under that person???




~Nicole~
We would prefer all members put requests in the swap folder or looking for downline/upline. If you are are receiving PMs without any reference to something you have posted, then please report the member to Lene with a forwarded PM.



IT IS SPAM if they EMAIL you from here (and D4A must comply with requests for evidence if a prosecution is sought).


Our concern is that some people regard membership of a forum such as this as the same as a safelist for email advertising...

It isn't.

It is illegal to "harvest" member details.

[Lene]

Originally posted by Gnida_M@Jul 11 2004, 03:02 PM
Lene

i think if i understan u right will be better if u and André open one new section where members can ask or tell somthing about some PTR's :)

Andrew
I'm not quite sure what you mean,
I thought that was a good topic for general discussion :unsure:

[Gnida_M]

i mean 2 make new section 2 PTR, PTC, PTS progs and make for each prog ONLY 1 topic

Andrew

[Lene]

Hit me Gnida, I still don't understand what you mean :unsure:

Can you give me an example of what posts should be in it?

[Gnida_M]

LOL :) ok,

For example: make PTR section --> here is topic Earnings2All --> and in this topic all tells somthing about... news, questions etc.

Andrew

[Lene]

Don't you think it would become too many threads and difficult
to find them? I think there is over 1000 PTRs running CC
(saw the stats on CC site, but can't remember the exact number)-

[lungfish]

To just be slightly off-topic (but just a bit) does anyone think that companies who allow spyware/adware users to blitz our desktops with their ads be accountable to spam laws?

[Gnida_M]

Lene

I agree with u ~50% ;)
if it's make 2 all PTR's it's very hard work, i know :)
but will be not bad if it's make 2 PTR's what r actual and members can ask 2 other members all about

[antinomy]

Originally posted by lungfish@Jul 12 2004, 08:07 PM
To just be slightly off-topic (but just a bit) does anyone think that companies who allow spyware/adware users to blitz our desktops with their ads be accountable to spam laws?
But I digress - revisited....

I think they should be prosecuted for anything you can find - fraud, theft, GBH, and locked up with all the rapists and murderers**


** if anyone wants to now WHY I keep going on about rapists and murderers in this vein, I'm trying to raise the awareness that a JAIL term is a JAIL term ... and the reason we have JAILs is to keep ALL the BAD guys in one place!

Most people think - but it can't do much harm and nothing bad will happen to me.... because I'll spoof my address, etc, etc.

DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO DO IT YOURSELF! - even as a joke or in the name of a worthy cause.

Well there's more than one person who thought they could get away with it because no one would take action.... sitting in jail with rapists and murderers.

[D.Koenemann]

Hi lungfish,

I'm glad you asked that question. :lol:

My answer is that I wish they were accountable, but I feel the same way about pop-ups, flying ads, or slide in ads. To me they are all spam.

The initial idea wasn't so bad but now every one thinks they have to have pop-ups and all the related things. To me it reminds me of the salespersons you can have show up at any business, or maybe your door that just won't take no for an answer. :(

I have gotten to the point that when I visit a site and they hit me with a pop-up, I usually just move on and in most cases will not do business with them. :)

Yes I wish they were accountable, but in most cases they are with-in the law.

D.Koenemann

[Lene]

Originally posted by Gnida_M@Jul 12 2004, 09:45 PM
Lene

I agree with u ~50% ;)
if it's make 2 all PTR's it's very hard work, i know :)
but will be not bad if it's make 2 PTR's what r actual and members can ask 2 other members all about
lol.. agree 50%, that's very diplomatic.
ISn't it easier to start a new topic than to search for
the topic discussing exactly that program? :unsure:
Maybe I don't fully understand it, but it sounds like chaos :P

[Lene]

Spyware and adware should be illegal.. or at least it
should be defined what is and what isn't.
For instance if you download a program that you get for free
because of the adware I think it's ok, but the user should be made
fully aware of it.

Sometimes when they have uninstallers they have a form asking
why you are uninstalling their software..lol.. I make sure to give
them an :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: lesson
about their moral :huh:

[Gnida_M]

lol.. agree 50%, that's very diplomatic. ISn't it easier to start a new topic than to search for the topic discussing exactly that program? Maybe I don't fully understand it, but it sounds like chaos

it's not chaos and i give u example... : look in Get Paid --> General Discussion
there u can find 3 topic about same prog (-wild-) , i think this is chaos

Andrew

[Andre]

It took some time for us to understand, but we do now!

This is a very good idea Andrew, and we will try it!

We must cover some details first, but we must try
this, it will cause much more work, so we need more
moderators for this job, but it will probably be a very
positive thing for the Downline4All community.

It will probably be a little tricky to get it organized
at the beginning, but when every program has it's
own discussion thread it will be a very usefull tool
for every body.

This is probaly something we should have done from
the beginning. Thank you for this one Andrew.

Very good! :D

[Gnida_M]

yep, it's make esay and maybe gives members answers 2 question they want 2 ask :)
but it's no easy for u and Lene

[antinomy]

With the help of our members, we can get the answers everyone seeks.

Obviously, we're not a members of every PTR, so we will be reliant on accurate information from those that are... and like our members, some of us are more active clickers than others....

[D.Koenemann]

Do any of you, or have you ever purchased leads?

Do you know the method by which the leads were gathered? Is the company that is selling you these leads reputable?

Does anyone here know how to clean a list before you start promoting to it?

These are all things that are important to know if you want to stay out of trouble with the spam laws.

Does anyone have a specific question they would like answered about spam?

D.Koenemann

[Gnida_M]

With the help of our members, we can get the answers everyone seeks.

yep, u r right but all of us r members a lot of PTR/PTC/PTS progs

[VamPvixen]

OK I have a question.

What is the actual definition of Spam?

I am thinking it is not a general email/pm but rather one that contains some sort of offer to join some sort of opotunity and contains some sort of referal link?

Id be interested to see the actual definition acording to the law to really clear a few things up.

[Gnida_M]

Originally posted by VamPvixen@Jul 23 2004, 11:47 AM
OK I have a question.

What is the actual definition of Spam?

I am thinking it is not a general email/pm but rather one that contains some sort of offer to join some sort of opotunity and contains some sort of referal link?

Id be interested to see the actual definition acording to the law to really clear a few things up.
VamPvixen

general SPAM types:

1. PM
2. E-Mail
3. Advertising
4. etc. ...

what about SPAM low... in each country this has other interpretacion, i don't think r international SPAM low

Andrew

[VamPvixen]

Thanks Andrew.

when I said "general" email/pm I meant one in which there is no advertising offer in it.
For example if I just send a pm/email to you talking to you, that would not be spam.
However if I send you an advertisment,that you did not request, that would be.
This is my interpretation only.

Thats why I'd like the actual definition in here to clear that up.

[Gnida_M]

Originally posted by VamPvixen@Jul 24 2004, 04:34 AM
Thats why I'd like the actual definition in here to clear that up.
VamPvixen

It's very hard but i think we can try make SPAM low specialy 2 D4A ;)

Andrew

[Andre]

Originally posted by VamPvixen@Jul 23 2004, 08:47 AM
OK I have a question.

What is the actual definition of Spam?

I am thinking it is not a general email/pm but rather one that contains some sort of offer to join some sort of opotunity and contains some sort of referal link?

Id be interested to see the actual definition acording to the law to really clear a few things up.
I think this is a very clear definition on what spam is and isn't in this community.

[D.Koenemann]

Yes that is a very clear explaination of what is spam in PM's for this forum and most other forums will see it the same way. (-good-)

Any one have questions about the difinition of spam in other areas, email, commercial email?

Does anyone know what reverse marketing is, is it spam?

Give me your input on these things. (-good-)

D.Koenemann

[Andre]

Now This is interresting!

You can get a lot of free leads this way if you are smart about it.

But if you "bounce back" an offer with Your offer, it is infact
called spamming. You are the prospect, the sender has bought
your address from somewhere you have agreed to the terms.
(the small typing said something about this, or you said Yes
because you would receive something for free etc.)

However, the sender have Not asked for Your opportunity..

Any one have any experience with this kind of marketing?

What is a solid approach? How can you get the sender
interrested in Your offer without sending you link?

[Gnida_M]

André

what about u tell... This is interresting!

this is good way 2 MLM :greedy: but in other case it's BIIIIIIIIG SPAM :ranting2:

Andrew

[peterson]

Nothing much to say here but at least I learn something what's SPAM, good information.